Description

Josh Greene, editor of Wine & Spirits magazine, returns to taste the Top 5 Wines of 2010 with Gary Vaynerchuk. They taste through 5 very interesting and different bottles from all around the world!

Transcript

Wine and Spirits Magazine Top 5 Wines of 2010 Gary Vaynerchuk: Hello, everybody and welcome to Wine Library TV. I am your hose Gary Vaynerchuk and this my friends is the Thunder Show a.k.a. the internet’s most passionate wine program. And this is a very exciting episode for me. It may end becoming you know I think we’re on our way on creating a tradition. Josh Greene: Cool. Gary Vaynerchuk: We are very fortunate to have a returned guest. Why don’t you tell the Vayner Nation who didn’t catch you last time who you are, what this is and how we’re so lucky to have this in front of us? Josh Greene: Well this is fresh off the press, the ink is still a little wet. It’s our annual buying guide and I'm Josh Greene. I'm the publisher of this magazine Wine & Spirits Magazine and also the editor. I write a bunch of the profiles that are in here including profiles of all these five wineries that are right here in front of us. Gary Vaynerchuk: How many people --so there are 100 wines? Josh Greene: There are 100 wines. Gary Vaynerchuk: How many people write profiles? Josh Greene: Seven of us. Gary Vaynerchuk: Seven of you. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: And this are really break down to about you know 13 each or whatever that-- Josh Greene: No, some of us do about 20, some of us do 10. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. Josh Greene: It depends on where they're specialty is lying, what showed really well during the year. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. Josh Greene: So, you know and like I know most of these folks intimately and actually Patrick wrote the one on Weimer in Andrewville and Patricio down in Chile. He covers Spain but I cover-- he still covered the -- he still covered these guys. So I did LeFebvre and I did William-- Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. So this is -- has this even hit the stores yet? Josh Greene: No, it won’t be out for another two weeks. Gary Vaynerchuk: So -- Josh Greene: It literally just got to our office the other day. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. So nobody even knows what the wines are really yet? Josh Greene: No. Actually, they are -- no, they are announced on our website. Gary Vaynerchuk: As of when? Josh Greene: As of the 15th of September when we sent this. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. Josh Greene: When we sent this for our printer, we then put it on the site. Gary Vaynerchuk: Smart right, going, got it. So do you do it one to a 100, do you actually number them? Josh Greene: Nope, they are from all around the world and each one of them really stands on its own. So there isn’t a ranking. Gary Vaynerchuk: Right. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s just these are the 100. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: And do people like -- do people because they're need to like rank things think that like the first one on here is one or the last one here is one? Josh Greene: No, because we do it alphabetically. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it, brilliant. Josh Greene: We do it alpha and then we do it alpha by country. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yes, so it’s American and here we go. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: And so you -- oh, wow Amavi. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: So -- Josh Greene: Yeah, they did really well. I mean -- it’s surprising. They're probably one of the least expensive brands that did really well. They're a couple. There is like, you know we have two favorite brands in Lumber Landing. Their wines were like in the $15.00 to $18.00 range. Gary Vaynerchuk: Looks funny about the Amavi is that we just had Amavi on the show -- I just did-- Josh Greene: Oh, really? Gary Vaynerchuk: I just did a brown paper bag, Cabernet tasting and the Amavi dominated and I just was blown away by it. Josh Greene: They're making great wine and they have access to terrific vineyards. Gary Vaynerchuk: For like $20.00 and up. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: Amazing. Josh Greene: It’s an incredible value of wine. Gary Vaynerchuk: No question. Josh Greene: Yeah. And people don’t know much about it. Gary Vaynerchuk: Good to see Jim Clinton down there. And so, this is the 24th annual. Josh Greene: Yup, 24th time we’ve done it. Gary Vaynerchuk: Are you getting geared up? I mean let’s not overshadow this one but I mean is that -- I can’t imagine it’s not back here a little bit. You're saying “oh, crap next year it’s $25.00”. Josh Greene: Yeah. When we did it, we did our 25th anniversary issue for the for the magazine. Gary Vaynerchuk: Magazine itself, right. Josh Greene: It’s as a whole it was a few years ago. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: But 25th anniversary of this will be sort of a special occasion. Well, we already started like in this issue we have a new -- a new center spread where we looked at nine wineries that really caught our attention this last year. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yes. Josh Greene: So this is something new when this issue and we’re probably bring up some new stuff next year as well to sort of develop it a bit more but 25 year is a long time we’re doing this. Gary Vaynerchuk: It sure is. So you know we’ve covered this and we got a linked up last years’ episodes because we did a lot of background in the last episode together. So we’ll give context with people but you know -- so we’ll link that up Mot, thank you so much. But from the -- you know people that don’t want to go back and they are lazy, what about a two-minute version of you know the background of you and Wine & Spirits Magazine? The best 240 second, you know let's give you a couple more time. We’ll give you four minutes that you can do. Josh Greene: Well I started in ’84 with them and they have been started in ’82 and then I purchased in ’89 and that’s when we started our restaurant pole back in ’89 and two years before that we’ve started this. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. Josh Greene: And this sort of started as an outgrowth of our December issue when we look back over the year and looked at who the wineries, where they performed best over the course of the year. And as it grew, we start doing profiles of each of the wineries. Basically, we selected out a 100 and then about I think this is our 7th year now of doing our top 100 event in San Francisco. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah, which is a real big deal? Josh Greene: It’s a fantastic event. Gary Vaynerchuk: I mean literally everybody I talked to that’s ever been to it is just blown away by the quality of the event. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: I’d never thought about moving it on the road. I’ve always have this bad feeling like I always wanted to be New York, so I could go. Josh Greene: We are talking about it. I don’t think we’ll bring it to New York because we do another event in New York. Gary Vaynerchuk: Right. Josh Greene: From our restaurant. Gary Vaynerchuk: That’s right. Josh Greene: And we have some list to that. Gary Vaynerchuk: But you might move to us. Josh Greene: But we might do two cities with that event and two cities with our couple over there. Gary Vaynerchuk: I see. Josh Greene: That’s what our plan. Gary Vaynerchuk: And when is that event? Josh Greene: That event is October 13th. Gary Vaynerchuk: Okay. Josh Greene: 100 wineries pouring all the top 100 wineries. Gary Vaynerchuk: So people say Frank can still get in or no? Josh Greene: They can still get in. The tickets are ahead of sales from last year and last year, we sold out. So I think it will be sold out fairly soon. Gary Vaynerchuk: So you're talking in maybe next couple days. Josh Greene: Well no, I mean it sold out last year around the -- Gary Vaynerchuk: Maybe four. Josh Greene: Four or five days before. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it, okay. Josh Greene: So we still have. Gary Vaynerchuk: And is there a webpage where people can buy tickets if they're in San Fran? Josh Greene: There is Wine&SpiritsMagazine.com//top100. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got them Mot? Mot, you're good. Josh Greene: What’s cool about the event, I just want to say this. Is that there are 10 new notable restaurants that come. Gary Vaynerchuk: Okay. Josh Greene: And they're all bringing incredible food. So it’s not just wine, it's wine and food. Gary Vaynerchuk: Let me ask you a question. I do not recall asking you last year. To the Wine & Spirits Magazine, but you know for me obviously -- I'm just pretty in the wine, obviously Wine Library carries a lot of spirits but I’ve always looked at it as wine magazine. How much of it by percentage of coverage, is it wine compared to spirits? And obviously it was called wine and spirits. You know I see enormous energy from you on the wine side. You may have equals and much energy on the spirit side and I don’t know that. How much of this is a wine magazine or is it covering spirits? Josh Greene: It’s 90% of the wine magazine. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah, that’s all figured. Josh Greene: And there is a Chris Hallowell, who’s our writer in New York. He does a lot of spirits coverage and he farms out some of it and he does a lot of it himself. And we’ve done some cool spirit stuff that we’ll do maybe three or four major spirits stories a year. And then a lot of the new product releases and a lot of coverage of new restaurants that are covering spirits or new bars that are cool and they're opening up. Gary Vaynerchuk: Well and there are some great wines in San Fran? Josh Greene: Yeah. And there are some great wines in New York too. Gary Vaynerchuk: Is there a spirits -- I mean spirits is actually great to the cover. Josh Greene: We rarely put spirits in the cover. Gary Vaynerchuk: So that’s why it's -- Josh Greene: Because our reader is really a wine reader. Gary Vaynerchuk: And was it originally because like you said you bought it, was it originally going to be kind of a 50/50 thing and then once you kind jumped in, you kind of pushed it further now into the wine side? Josh Greene: The market was so different back in the 80’s. The wine market was really small and the wine market is much bigger now. Gary Vaynerchuk: Dramatically big. Josh Greene: So, in this country you can really have a wine focused magazine, whereas in the 80’s they were all really starting. And spirits now have they're own magazines. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: There's you know there are three or four spirits focused magazines and they're really are two different audiences. I mean there is overlap but the people who are really interested enough to read the wine magazine are -- there's a subset of the people who are really interested enough. A subset of those people are the people who really up to that to reassure the magazine. Gary Vaynerchuk: Sure. Josh Greene: And so it said, I think for our reader they're interested in wine. Gary Vaynerchuk: So what wines are we going to start with? Josh Greene: We’re going to start with the reds actually. Gary Vaynerchuk: And let’s talk about that because you came in and you set it up. And you’re like I want to start with the reds and I was “oh, this can be a fun thing to talk about”. Josh Greene: Well you know Gary, I setup my whole tasting based on starting with the Riesling and going through. And when Chris and I opened them up inside and taste through them, I thought “hmm”. This is also the fact that if we start with the reds, we’re going to go from the farthest coast up through Washington across the New York state to Spain and then to France. Gary Vaynerchuk: So you kind of like that a little bit. Josh Greene: Yeah, yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. Josh Greene: So it’s a nice geographic. Gary Vaynerchuk: And really you know when you look at it, these two wines are so big that I can very much see -- you know if I was to taste my -- if I was just to taste like without tasting ahead of you, I probably would start out with this but it very conceivably would have them gone to this and then I probably would have went here and then I would debated between those guys. So are you concerned for the people looking at home when they see an Andrewville red wine you know of this kind of boom. There’s a concern to the next white wine especially you know a Riesling dry is going to get over powered. We always see a white to red, what is your top Reisling brand? Josh Greene: A lot of people actually like to taste red to white. Gary Vaynerchuk: You know, I know that’s a common very well the nerds. Josh Greene: Especially, yeah the nerds. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: And then especially one of the things that occurred to me when I was in the other room looking at these wines is that that Riesling I think when we taste through them, I think that Riesling will create like a segmentation well say -- Gary Vaynerchuk: A transition. Josh Greene: Yeah. And then would say the reds are gone now. Gary Vaynerchuk: Let’s have white. Josh Greene: The Riesling has a lot of flavor. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: And it’s really bright and acidic. And it’s going to sort of clean up our mouths and help us move on to these more complex older wines. Gary Vaynerchuk: Let’s do it. So let’s get into the first wine Mot. Let me move this kind of in order that allows us to kind of see. So what do we have here? This is the ’07 Williams Selyem Pinot Noir now these guys are pretty darn legendary. Josh Greene: Yeah, they're legendary and this particular wine is from a very legendary vineyard. This wine is from the first vineyard which is probably. I have to admit it’s probably my vineyard in California. Gary Vaynerchuk: Is that right? Josh Greene: It is one of the most beautiful places in the world. It is way out on the coast. So you're up on the bridge and all you see are far bridges and a few little pockets of vineyard. Around you see flowers which is right on the next bridge down. There’s a Precious Mountain which is another wine that they make that is really great. But one of the things that are interesting about this is that these folks Dyson, John Dyson bought Williams Selyem from Ed. Gary Vaynerchuk: About five years maybe more. Josh Greene: I think 10 years ago now. I think in 2000. Gary Vaynerchuk: That just hurt my feelings. Josh Greene: Yeah. I know it makes me feel a little. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: He bought a vineyard in 2001 and planted it to the exact same variety, exact same clones. Gary Vaynerchuk: Clones. Josh Greene: Of heritage clones of Pinot that Hirsch used it, that Hirsch gives them for this wine. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. Josh Greene: Yes. Gary Vaynerchuk: Got it. Josh Greene: It’s--and it’s a Martin. This is to me what so great about this wine is that a more ripeness this sort of almost like transparent strawberry flavor that it takes on. Hirsch and Williams Selyem I think worked really well together but Hirsch style. The Hirsch through and the Williams Selyem style in the wine. Gary Vaynerchuk: Are you a fan of the Hirsch vineyard pinot noir itself? Josh Greene: I think that he’s going to -- I’ve tasted their 2009’s and they are unbelievable. Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s taken them a while to get there right? Josh Greene: It’s taken then a while to get there. It's worked through a bunch of different wine makers. He’s working with Ross Cobb now who was at flowers. Gary Vaynerchuk: Great, great. Josh Greene: And Ross is brilliant. Gary Vaynerchuk: Brilliant plan. Josh Greene: And the two of them together are really cool to see them working together. I mean, I think that David is one of the best growers around. And a really sensitive grower, really in tuned with his vines. And to have the vineyard right there and have the winery right in the middle of it. It’s hard I think it’s been a real challenge to get people what you know because even flowers is hard to get people to work at. But he is way much further than flowers. To get to his place you drive far and away further in the flowers. And so to get someone to commit to it is -- it’s hard. Gary Vaynerchuk: I don’t know him very well but I know the vineyard is super well. Has he been disappointed that their own family vineyard kind of has not performed as well as a lot of people that use a fruit? It’s been a very awkward--from afar. Josh Greene: He's been challenged by it. Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s from afar. Josh Greene: It’s been challenged. Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s a very awkward thing. And for getting a little nerdy Hirsch is this amazing vineyard that there's been multiple producers that are -- they probably they're best pinot noir from that vineyard, meanwhile they're own you know pinot has not been bad in any stretch of the imagination at all. It’s been a very solid pinot but you know spotty at times and that almost never to the quality of some of the producers that have been fortunate enough to have the fruit. So it’s kind of a weird feeling, right. You're the grower and there are six or seven other guys or how many vineyard and wineries these days are making better pinot than yours and you shouldn’t say it's your -- I mean it’s just this wild dynamic. Josh Greene: There were a bunch making wine from this fruit for the ‘90s and now he has cut it back since he’s making this wine, he just cut it back too selected producers who he really has a good sense of having and how they make their wine. But David, you know to his credit he’s got a long term vision and he wouldn’t have planed at this place if he didn’t have a long term vision. And when he went into it, he knew it was going to take him time to get to the point where he could make wine at the quality of some of his buyers. And he’s getting there. I mean if you take -- Gary Vaynerchuk: Feel manageable. Josh Greene: You should go out and visit the vineyard and taste with Ross. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: Because the ‘09’s are gorgeous. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. All right, so that Williams Selyem when I was growing up in the wine business in the early 90’s, this was like a “the called wine” I mean people used to come in here every weekend. You know just beg -- and I just remembered it wasn’t even in New Jersey at that time are available. I just remember it was so -- I mean it was so out there. They were the two guys producing amazing pinot and everybody wanted it. It was getting huge scores and it just couldn’t get it and there was. Josh Greene: And they still -- Gary Vaynerchuk: And just still finally got it. Oh, it’s still that way. Josh Greene: It’s still that way. And it’s still mainly a mailing list wine. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: And in order -- you know they just build a new winery in order to get into the winery, you have to be on the mailing list. Gary Vaynerchuk: Which makes sense? Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s a club. Josh Greene: Yeah, it is a club. Gary Vaynerchuk: I understand that concept. Josh Greene: Yeah, it’s a club. Gary Vaynerchuk: So what are you getting on the nose. Josh Greene: Well I usually get a lot of oak on their wines when they're young. But I also get this fruit character that sort of spicy strawberry fruit character that associated with -- Martin found from Hirsch. And I think that as this wine develops, that will shook more and more. I mean we had a ‘97 that they made from the Hirsch vineyard. That was absolutely gorgeous. Gary Vaynerchuk: The one thing I think is really interesting about this wine is you do not get this isn’t you know -- it comes from clone but this is not going to be ever be confused on the nose as burgundy in wine. This is true and true California, U.S.A. I mean, I'm not getting the--in the barnyard and any of that kind of stuff. They're very fruit driven. I get what I call a spicy sour cherry. And so there’s this -- a lot of cherry kind of thing going on but there’s an underlining spiciness on the nose that I think is quite neat. Josh Greene: What's really interesting is that he started -- he has made a new vintage wine from their state vineyard where they planted all the stuff. They interspersed all this different clones about I think 18 different clones or something in this whole block. He made it without using the Williams Selyem yeast. All of his pinots are made with the Williams Selyem yeast, which was I think a zim from way back when. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yup. Josh Greene: I mean it makes all the pinot exactly the same. So you can taste the difference from vineyard to vineyard. But there’s no funk in their wines at all. And this wine doesn’t have a funk but it has a different kind of complexity because it’s got all those different cloning material and it all mixed together. All co-fermented together. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: And it’s this -- it’s the kind of thing that I think their wines will taste like five or 10 years from now. So I think it’s the direction they're moving. But again it’s not funky old world style. It’s a different kind of wine. Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s very vibrant. And there’s a little bit herbaceousness on the back end which I like quite a bit. There's an herbal kind of component. Josh Greene: I associate that with the sandstone soils out in the coast. Gary Vaynerchuk: Okay. Josh Greene: You’ve got all that, you got all that pine and kind of a forest. There was there, you know it was all farmed out and taken down to rebuild San Francisco in the early part of the century of the 20th century. And that’s when they had all this bridges that were opened up. Gary Vaynerchuk: After the fire? Josh Greene: Yeah. And all the centuries and centuries of that pine stuff building up and the red wood building up, it gives it -- it’s a very acidic soil, so you get that pungency, that pungency of that. Gary Vaynerchuk: And some great minerality here. Josh Greene: Yeah, yeah absolutely. Gary Vaynerchuk: As well, I mean I get -- Josh Greene: A lot of it. Gary Vaynerchuk: A lot. Josh Greene: That just go on, you know. Gary Vaynerchuk: Very focused pinot, I like the fruit. Very, very complex you know it’s a great, great point. It’s a substantially complex pinot noir. It has a great body. I would say it’s got even a little bit more weight to it on the mid palate transition that I would expect the most pinot noirs, $72.00 suggested retail on this one right. So, it’s far from inexpensive at the same token I always feel that American wines in the pinot noir category get you know put to a different standard than the Burgundy wines there's a lot of very average to solid very good pinot noir coming out of your know burgundy in this price range meanwhile when we see a price like this for the top or one of the top. You know pinot noir in America at this price range there sometimes a sticker shock and I always find it to be a little bit disappointing. Josh Greene: Yeah, there only making a couple of wines more expensive than this and there they're, they're sort of special state selection in wines that they're not really served with the public. So this is one of their most expensive bottling. And I think that -- I think for $72.00 compared internationally to other things that you would find, I think it’s a really good deal. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: Because as you say, it’s got weight but it’s not in any way heavy. Gary Vaynerchuk: No. Josh Greene: You know it’s so vibrant and so fresh. Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s kind of -- Josh Greene: It really -- it really just shores it doesn’t sit. Gary Vaynerchuk: It kind of makes me think of like Indian or Asian cuisine, where you get a lot of flavor. But, actually yes and the spice but actually in a different way, I love when I eat really good raw fish crudo or sushi. I'm full but it wasn’t heavy. Josh Greene: Yup. Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s not like I eat for four steaks. Josh Greene: Yup. Gary Vaynerchuk: And I'm just as full. And that’s kind of how this wines come across to me. It’s got the body that’s appealed to me but it's pinot. It’s not like I eat, I drank 70% percent gin that I want to take a nap. And so I think by passing, to me this is the kind of wine just to put the context for you guys. You know this would be like a 94 point wine to me I think its spectacular really, really well made. Did you guys score this through the year? Josh Greene: I think I gave it, I think gave this a little bit higher than 94. Gary Vaynerchuk: Okay. Josh Greene: But they’ve got a 94 or 95. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: It’s in there it’s one of our top pinots of the year. Gary Vaynerchuk: Great, great stuff. Great, great stuff good start. I'm excited all right. Josh Greene: I love that wine, 95. Gary Vaynerchuk: 95. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: So as you say in your heart a great, great wine. All right, so let’s move on and rinse with this. Josh Greene: Oh, this will kill the pinot but its fine. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah, that’s actually a pretty good point. But -- so into the will, I have a great story, I mean one of my, one of my favorite producer out of Washington state, I was so obsessed with finding it. Again all of my favorite stories when I was a young child, I have tried to find this co-authors for the stores. Eight Italian only distributor carries this wine. Josh Greene: Really, here in Jersey? Gary Vaynerchuk: In New York and New Jersey in 1997 or ’98. Josh Greene: Oh, you're talking about Artisan-- Gary Vaynerchuk: Penny Bianco. Josh Greene: Penny Bianco had it really. Gary Vaynerchuk: Penny Bianco carried Andrew Will in Quilceda Creek. I called them like “hey, I was going New Jersey, you distributed in New Jersey. I see you with the beverage media guy but like yeah I'm like “I want to buy like Andrew Will in QuilcedaCreek” and the guy thought was really? Because they're like and Italian only you know. I'm going to pull like taste of Quelceda Creek. It was incredible. You know not now when I'm going to get you know all the crazy press but the Andrew Will wines. I was so excited. They were so good and back there we’re still in 20’s, higher than 20’s like 29 but I never -- Josh Greene: But they were great. Gary Vaynerchuk: Oh, they were great. Josh Greene: I mean back in the best wines that he made were the late 90’s. Gary Vaynerchuk: And so this-- Josh Greene: They were such beautiful classic cabernets styled wines. Gary Vaynerchuk: Andrew Will champoux 2007 vintage and this is a blend right? Josh Greene: It’s mainly, its Cabernets Sauvignon and Marlow. Gary Vaynerchuk: Cabernet-- Josh Greene: It’s 50/50. Gary Vaynerchuk: Oh, no, no there’s a point right? Josh Greene: There are also 50 Bordeaux and Cabernet Sauvignon. It's 50% frank and then the rest is, yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: 52% cabernet frog so you guys already know I'm going to look -- I'm excited about that. 19 cab, 21 Merlot and eight Petit Bordeaux, $68.00 suggested really, really one of the top, top Washington state producers. I would say that you get anybody into a debate top five Washington producers you know. Josh Greene: Oh, he’ll certainly be in the top five. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: That and Quelceda-- Josh Greene: For me Quelceda and in terms of cabernet based wines I think they're at the top. Gary Vaynerchuk: At the top. Josh Greene: Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah, there the best. Josh Greene: That’s just making a really good wine. Gary Vaynerchuk: You feel like, you feel next year -- Josh Greene: But I don’t think he’s at that level. And he also you know what’s great about Chris Camarda is that he has a really strong philosophy behind this wine and he’s had it that way for years. Gary Vaynerchuk: Thanks Mott. Josh Greene: And really has been developing his wines philosophically. It's really its interesting because I don’t know if anyone else in Washington who really works that way. There are some younger guys that are unlike Greg Harrington -- Gary Vaynerchuk: He’s a great guy. Josh Greene: Yeah, yeah. He started with the philosophy and tried to make his wines to that philosophy. Gary Vaynerchuk: He’s awesome. Josh Greene: And that’s what -- you know they both came out of the restaurant business. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah, yeah. Josh Greene: So he started in ’89 and as you said the wines at the end of ‘90s. Gary Vaynerchuk: I mean those wines were freaking me out, I remember recommending them to people who came in and said, “Hey, you’ve shot the ones that--“ so I was like “yeah, yeah here they are. By the way take one bottle what is this Washington -- I mean remember this is still like before Washington really, you know, I was like “trust me” really that’s a core of how we build Wine Library by giving those kind of recommendations. Josh Greene: But one of the things that really excited me about being in Washington in the spring was to taste Chris’s 2007, it's just a case or bunch of 2007’s they are of the quality and of the style that was being, that made Washington famous in the late ‘90s. It’s -- it had like really -- the temperature drop off at the end of the season. They have this cool -- they're rich but they have this coolness, they have this beautiful, just delicate. Gary Vaynerchuk: Do you feel like it's -- that do you feel -- I always thought that Washington, what I really loved about it and I thought they lost their way a little when the Walla Walla explosion happened. I always thought that they have almost Bordeaux like sensibility that they were -- they were always like a hair lower than the Bombat, like the California lines. And then hit my palate right, I mean not that who doesn’t want to have dominance or you know on Sydney and those wines were exciting to me Robert Craig Affinity and--shaped for it and love that. But I remember they're being that period in time 1999 to 2001, 1998 to 2000. Josh Greene: Exactly. Gary Vaynerchuk: Where I felt like the top wines from Washington and say cabernet based with--but they were just a hair less explosive. And made me feel like it was the perfect, that was almost like the imaginary blend in my mind of a California wine and a Bordeaux wine, you know, and I feel like that’s the style that I've always looked for from this guys, is that kind of what you get yet. Josh Greene: I think that -- I think that in 2007 you’ll find that again. And what was interesting was that you know -- Gary Vaynerchuk: Its smells -- Josh Greene: Are you talking too -- Gary Vaynerchuk: The nose on this is incredible. Josh Greene: I was talking to Chris because when I was up there tasting with him I noticed that he’s alcohol levels, it’s 14.7. Gary Vaynerchuk: Right. Josh Greene: It's not a low alcoholic. Gary Vaynerchuk: No, it’s not it's a big alcohol wine. Josh Greene: And yet it doesn’t taste like a -- it doesn’t taste hot. There’s no heat in it all. So we were doing a project on alcohol in one and I called him up and I said you know what is it that’s different about your wine or the wine were tasting for 2007 that doesn’t make me feel like I’m getting that heat. And his point was this coolness at the end of the season like in California got heat spikes in the end of the season your temperature drops off. And so you got a ripening period where the acidity is sustained in the grapes. Gary Vaynerchuk: Which is huge and it doesn’t spike. Josh Greene: And the acidity. If you're saying that the acidity and the tannin worked very differently in wine like this than they would in a Napa Valley wine. So that you don’t get the heat, you get that sort of that warmth at the end at all. He also said something interesting. He said that a lot of wines that have this big blast of flavor and you call them fruit balms or even oak monster wines that people talked about them being liquor like. Gary Vaynerchuk: Yup. Josh Greene: And you said you know liquor is not wine. A wine has a beginning middle and an end. And he wants his wines to go that way that they don’t want this big blast. Gary Vaynerchuk: Sure.